tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8207237618509440496.post2418055851431655708..comments2023-03-28T04:32:18.124-04:00Comments on Witless Prattle: I Read This--CABLE AND THE NEW MUTANTSKazekagehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07499536996058174109noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8207237618509440496.post-88468828087890237432011-09-21T09:32:56.097-04:002011-09-21T09:32:56.097-04:00It took quite a long time for the New Mutants to r...It took quite a long time for the New Mutants to really get into a groove and become X-Force. I would actually put it at the "aftermath" issue post <i>X-Cutioner's Song</i> actually, which is . . like 17 issues in to the run of <i>X-Force</i> or something, which should tell you something right there. <br /><br /> I'll always stand up for the Image guys, as they really grabbed the younger folks attention in a way that comics really haven't managed to do since, which is kind of a shame. Sure, in the long run it didn't turn out they had a lot of staying power, but you can have disposable pop music exist in the same world as classic rock, surely.<br /><br /> Oh, and I love the phrase "the Nickleback" of comics, and will probably nick it sometime. :)Kazekagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07499536996058174109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8207237618509440496.post-36955273848533890012011-09-20T23:59:49.116-04:002011-09-20T23:59:49.116-04:00Good recap on a storyline and era that I had check...Good recap on a storyline and era that I had checked out on at the time. I read my New Mutants as a kid (and was generally disappointed), then came back in the early nineties and didn't recognize X-Force as the evolved team at all (and was generally confused). I think those "Image guys" truly did revitalize the industry, particularly Marvel's X-titles, and in all their work reminded readers that art is an important aspect of the comic book experience. Sure, they couldn't hold up the storylines themselves, and their egos led them all down the path of being parodies of themselves. I kinda hate them all now, and don't have any draw to chase down the new DC stuff (even though I subscribed to the new JLA when I saw it on the list of my kid's magazine drive). But I think it's wrong to downplay their positive contributions to the industry over the years.<br /><br />No big opinion on other writers listed in the comments- I guess I just see a lot of the same pattern- creators who are lauded for some breakout pieces but then can't sustain a level of originality, but somehow continue riding a reputation they often don't continue deserving. The Nickelback of comics, if you ask me.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for breaking down the whole NM -> XF thing for me!B Phathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00270956279038615361noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8207237618509440496.post-47641087077180387982011-09-15T08:41:21.641-04:002011-09-15T08:41:21.641-04:00Being "the writer of COMMANDO and TEEN WOLF&q...Being "the writer of COMMANDO and TEEN WOLF" shouldn't even earn you a cup of coffee. Of course, comics being comics, anyone who so much as carried cable for one day on a failed TV pilot is worth more than, say, Alan Moore.<br /><br />Man, what a waste of good trees that was. The fact that Bendis thought it was so brilliant explains . . .well, everything, really.<br /><br />Well, it presupposes that comics "then" are like comics now and there was only ever a narrow strain of audience for <i>everything.</i> Kinda terrible that people in comics have forgotten that there were actually comics pitched to kids and comics pitched to adults and <i>everyone got along fine.</i> Ultimately he does come around later in the book, but yeah, it put his nose out of joint.<br /><br />I don't know if the world is ready for Rob Liefeld before he was Rob Liefeld. I think their heads might explode or something.Kazekagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07499536996058174109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8207237618509440496.post-49522949413523689142011-09-15T03:07:46.312-04:002011-09-15T03:07:46.312-04:00I have never understood Loeb's comics career i...I have never understood Loeb's comics career in any way. Wasn't it observed by someone that he benefited from the "writers from outside comics" phenomenon? (even though writing COMMANDO and TEEN WOLF isn't the same as being a best-selling novelist)<br /><br />DC reprinted that Challs mini a few years ago to cash in on the subsequent Loeb/Sale successes. The introduction was written by Brian Michael Bendis, who raved about how influential he found the comic. Draw your own conclusions.<br /><br />I--really? That strikes me as kind of petty and misguided. I mean, I don't think there was a huge crossover in the audiences between Sandman/Doom Patrol/Swamp Thing and X-Men/Spider-Man/New Mutants at any point in history. I could be wrong, but I never perceived the Image guys diminishing the Vertigo thing in any meaningful way.<br /><br />Among what I have is proto-Youngblood work, and oh yes, you are correct. I don't think he ever came through on releasing those 80s Youngblood stories, which is a pity.<br /><br />I've seen Frank Miller's work from his fanzine days, so I've seen a full-blown evolution. But Jim Starlin's is much more entertaining in that regard.C. Elamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00284263547435956344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8207237618509440496.post-70928994965320643452011-09-14T08:45:26.811-04:002011-09-14T08:45:26.811-04:00I remember even the promos for Loeb's Challeng...I remember even the <i>promos</i> for Loeb's Challengers book made me wonder who in the hell thought that was a good idea, and really should have strangled his comics career in the crib. Sadly, this did not happen, and I have yet to read a story written by Jeph Loeb in the ensuing 20+ years of work that has justified why he gets work. No, not even <i>Long Halloween.</i> I know people think it's good, but I am right and those people are wrong and that's all there is to it.<br /><br />I know, right? There are a LOT of people in the business who hate the Image guys (in his book Grant Morrison kinda frowns on them for pulling the audience from the writer-driven proto-Vertigo books of the late 80's) but honestly, there needed to be some kind of reinvigoration out there and someone needed to make comics for 12-year olds (occasionally looking like they were written and drawn by same) again because we stopped doing that at the turn of the century and look what's happened.<br /><br /> Yeah, I've seen his early stuff and you can tell he was eating, sleeping, and breathing <i>New Teen Titans</i> during that time (I think <i>Youngblood</i> began its life as a Teen Titans riff) and he just kind of . . .started being Rob Liefeld as we know him today. It's not unlike Frank Miller, in a way. Look at Miller's Daredevil work early on and look at <i>Holy Terror</i> You'd hardly believe it was the same guy.Kazekagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07499536996058174109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8207237618509440496.post-61144901954738735912011-09-14T00:33:36.706-04:002011-09-14T00:33:36.706-04:00Well, if we're talking about Jeph Loeb in the ...Well, if we're talking about Jeph Loeb in the comments, isn't that pretty much his thing? His very first comics writing gig involved screwing up the Challengers of the Unknown to set up a sequel that sales in no way justified. He left them useless as characters, which admittedly didn't get a lot of press since no one cares about the Challs (except me! SOB!). Basically, I am saying I have the dislike for Loeb's work that people usually reserve for...Rob Liefeld. Funny how they wound up together.<br /><br />It's a neat bit of revisionist history that forgets those future Image guys re-energized some stale and boring books. I mean, I was never a fan, but their books had zing that late-80s Marvel lacked. They were undone more by their own hubris than a lack of people wanting their books.<br /><br />The funny thing about Rob Liefeld's art is that he made a conscious decision for it to look like that. I own some of his earliest published work (maybe his first) in the pages of MEGATON and he was trying to draw like George Perez.<br /><br />...No, seriously. It was amateur Perez, but it only bears a passing resemblance to the Liefeld work we all know.C. Elamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00284263547435956344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8207237618509440496.post-24259692370480427052011-09-13T23:01:29.753-04:002011-09-13T23:01:29.753-04:00The sad thing, I read that as "Cable bringing...The sad thing, I read that as "Cable bringing Jeph Loeb back to writing because no one demanded it." And look! Cable has half his face gone, just like that Liefeld arc in <i>X-Force</i> that no one talks about because it makes <i>Youngblood</i> read like fucking <i>Watchmen.</i><br /><br /> As was the style at the time, really. Of course, Nicieza abused the privilege a bit by having Magneto call himself "The overlord of the fatal attraction." (my favourite bit of purple dialogue ever) But he really worked hard to give them a unique identity (the bullshit with Reignfire notwithstanding) Then Jeph Loeb came along and screwed it up.Kazekagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07499536996058174109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8207237618509440496.post-43488647550215059422011-09-13T18:02:47.738-04:002011-09-13T18:02:47.738-04:00Well, apparently Jeph Loeb is bringing Cable back ...Well, apparently Jeph Loeb is bringing Cable back again in a few months (because no one demanded it), so I'm not surprised he's making the rounds... ;)<br /><br />From what little I recall of Nicieza's X-Force, his problem was that even after giving the team a clearer identity, he kept getting bogged down with the tortured dialogue and the overwrought interpersonal dramas. Which, to be fair, was typical of pretty much <i>everything</i> that was coming out at the time...Diana Kingston-Gabainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8207237618509440496.post-29757551888788637322011-09-13T14:08:50.116-04:002011-09-13T14:08:50.116-04:00This was in my blogroll this morning Eerie serendi...<a href="http://marvel1980s.blogspot.com/2011/09/1990-cables-origins.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+MarvelComicsOfThe1980s+%28Marvel+Comics+of+the+1980s%29" rel="nofollow">This was in my blogroll this morning</a> Eerie serendipity, eh? :)<br /><br /> Yeah, getting to grips with what the Mutants/X-Force's identity as a group and a philosophy was teased a bunch of times, but I don't think it was ever quite nailed down until after X-Cutioner's song, when Fabian Nicieza actually had the liberty to make the book his own. Of course, all this got ignored, but that Fabian Nicieza's career for ya. :)Kazekagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07499536996058174109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8207237618509440496.post-36858257727037151712011-09-13T11:03:48.937-04:002011-09-13T11:03:48.937-04:00This is one of those stories that's more memor...This is one of those stories that's more memorable for what it <i>meant</i> than for anything it actually <i>did</i>: as I recall, the high concept for Cable was the introduction of a third rallying point besides Xavier and Magneto - someone who rejected both Xavier's pacifist idealism and Magneto's notions of preemptive conquest. Under Cable, the New Mutants were basically meant to respond aggressively to mutant threats without extending that hostility to <i>all</i> humans everywhere. Admittedly, for a franchise that had spent so much of its life polarized between those two extremes, having a third faction made sense. But alas, it was the '90s and we just weren't ready to have nice things yet. :)Diana Kingston-Gabainoreply@blogger.com